Transcript - Interview with James Findlay, ABC Radio Canberra

The Hon Alex Hawke MP
Shadow Minister for Industry and Innovation
Manager of Opposition Business in the House

Interview with James Findlay, ABC Radio Canberra

Topics: Labor’s CSIRO job cuts.

JAMES FINDLAY, HOST

Alex Hawke is the Shadow Minister for Industry and Innovation. Good afternoon to you, Mr Hawke. What's your reaction to this news?

ALEX HAWKE

Good afternoon, James. We're shocked, like everyone else is, to hear about this many job losses, especially so close to Christmas and out of the blue. It's hard to understand that the CSIRO would not have already approached government and said, ‘look, we could use a top-up, we could have more money, and then we could avoid this loss of jobs and keep doing the excellent work we're doing’. So the question has to be asked to the government, why they did not agree to an increase in the CSIRO's funding when this was on the cards?

HOST

Dr Doug Hilton has said that he's been campaigning, but we're still at where we are now. There's still some ambiguity as to which departments or areas will be cut. Do you know which areas are under threat?

ALEX HAWKE

Look, we don't know enough about this announcement yet. It's just 350 jobs will go. We understand the funding problems. I mean, when the CSIRO came to the previous Coalition Government, we invested $3.8 billion in the 2020-21 budget. The pandemic was on and it was important to do that, but it's just as important now. And when you think about what's going on now, I mean, the government's talking about hosting an expensive COP31 summit in Adelaide. It'll cost a lot of money. It'll cost a lot of money to lobby for. Well, how at the same time when we're lobbying for something that requires the world’s premier scientists, are we losing scientists and science-based jobs in Australia? It's highly embarrassing. And if there's a lot of money for the COP conference, there should be a lot of money for the CSIRO. I think most Australians would agree with that.

HOST

Dr Doug Hilton, as I mentioned, he's the CSIRO chief executive. He said on our own breakfast show this morning that there won't be more investment elsewhere. [Clip plays] As the shadow minister for industry and innovation, how does that sit with you, Alex Hawke?

ALEX HAWKE

It's very concerning. I mean, we'd like to see the government supporting the CSIRO, especially now in government, and our policy as a Liberal Party is to have an innovation fund to improve commercialisation rates. We understand the innovation ecosystem. You've got to have finance going in, that's true, and you've also got to have commercialisation coming out. I do think this is low-hanging fruit for the government, though, and they're certainly talking a big game on science, especially climate science, but yet somehow the CSIRO is shedding jobs and losing money. It doesn't stack up, and the government does need to step up here.

HOST

Where do you think the priorities should be when it comes to investing in these innovation and industry jobs?

ALEX HAWKE

Minister Ayres needs to come forward and explain first what research units and programs will be affected. He knows right now. He hasn't explained how they'll be affected, and he hasn't said what funding requests that the government, the Albanese Government, has knocked back in the lead-up to the budget next year. Until he explains those things, we don't know. The public don't know. We don't know as an Opposition what research is going, what programs are affected, and how much money is needed. So we're going to ask a lot of these questions. We're going to take that to Parliament. A lot of the other parties will as well, and I think we're going to see what the government is saying, but at the moment they've just been silent on a pretty serious cut to the CSIRO.

HOST

Look, I recognise that you weren't the responsible minister when the coalition was in power, you are the representative now. Dr Hilton says that it's not just a current government responsibility when it comes to funding. I think successive governments over 40 years have created a funding situation where the level of appropriation just doesn't go up with the cost of doing science, and that means difficult choices for the organisation. Alex Hawke, do you recognise that your government have perhaps attributed to what the CSIRO is having to do now when the coalition was in power?

ALEX HAWKE

I think scientific research has to compete with all other funding requests in government. I think you've got to have priorities. I do think we have a good record in the last government, especially because you can understand the pandemic meant there was a huge emphasis on funding the CSIRO, and there was a big top up there, and we established the Innovation Fund. I mean, that's $3.8 billion. That's not to be taken lightly.

HOST

But what about outside the pandemic, Mr Hawke?

ALEX HAWKE

Well, outside, of course, there's competition for funding. I understand that, but at the time, I mean, I support his comments. I think government needs to prioritise science and research for good innovation in Australia. It's part of our ecosystem. It's money well spent. Coalition has a good track record. We did that with the Medical Research Future Fund as well. We've sort of prioritised research funding and those kinds of models that end up supporting good quality science and research in Australia. That was in particular And that's a huge, huge success. So, look, I think our policy on innovation is strong.

HOST

How much money do you think the CSIRO needs, or how much would you be advocating for to pump back into the organisation?

ALEX HAWKE

Well, that's what we don't know at the moment. So we're going to have to wait till Minister Ayres comes forward and says that, and that's what the government will need to do, and they'll have to do it in the Senate, or they'll have to do it in public. We think they should do it to the public first, explain what research is being cut, what programs will be affected, how much the CSIRO actually asked for, and why it was better to let them let go 350 people rather than top up the organisation. That's for the government to explain.

HOST

Alex Hawke, really appreciate your time this afternoon. Thank you.

ENDS