Question to Christopher Pyne MP re: Trade Unions
Mr HAWKE (Mitchell) (14:48): I have a much more serious question to the Minister for Education and Training. Will the minister update the House on the importance of maintaining—
An opposition member interjecting—
Mr HAWKE: It is a very serious question. You will want to know the answer. Will the minister update the House on the importance of maintaining transparency and accountability in the union movement? What stands in the way of achieving this vital reform?
Mr PYNE (Sturt—Leader of the House and Minister for Education and Training) (14:49): I do appreciate the question from the member for Mitchell because I know that he, like all local members on this side of the House, and probably the crossbenchers, takes accountability and transparency in the union movement very seriously.
Mr Champion interjecting—
The SPEAKER: The member for Wakefield will remove himself from the chamber under 94(a).
The member for Wakefield then left the chamber.
Mr PYNE: But we are not the only ones. I was very pleased yesterday to be watching Insiders from the Australia Broadcasting Corporation—we are very pleased that they run such a great show—and I saw Barrie Cassidy manfully attempting to get out of the Leader of the Opposition a straight answer about his knowledge of what happened with Winslow Constructors in the 2000s when he was the state secretary of Victoria. He tried five times. About Winslow Constructors, he said:
What do you know about that?
He did not get an answer. He tried again:
But you can't remember whether this was done?
This was the so-called payments for union memberships. Again, a third time:
You must recall whether at any point—
The SPEAKER: The member for Isaacs, on a point of order.
Mr Dreyfus: Yes, thank you very much.
Honourable members interjecting—
The SPEAKER: Your point of order? Get on with it. You are wasting time.
Mr Dreyfus: I am waiting for some silence.
The SPEAKER: No, just on with your point of order.
Mr Dreyfus: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am surprised that you can hear me. But on the assumption that you can hear me, I want to raise a quite serious matter which is—
The SPEAKER: You are wasting time.
Mr Dreyfus: I am not wasting time. I am raising a serious point of order—
The SPEAKER: What is it?
Mr Dreyfus: arising from the practice as to how, when there is a royal commission of the Commonwealth of Australia—
The SPEAKER: There is no point of order. The member will resume his seat.
Mr Dreyfus: I have not yet—
The SPEAKER: The member will resume his seat.
Mr Dreyfus interjecting—
The SPEAKER: You have raised the sub judice question and the answer is it is not covering royal commissions.
Mr Dreyfus interjecting—
The SPEAKER: You just did.
Mr Dreyfus interjecting—
The SPEAKER: The minister has the call.
Mr PYNE: For a third attempt, the redoubtable Mr Cassidy attempted to ask the Leader of the Opposition:
You must though recall whether at any point companies paid union fees.
Mr Dreyfus interjecting—
The SPEAKER: I refer you to page 189. Resume your seat.
Mr PYNE: Again, no answer.
Mr Dreyfus interjecting—
The SPEAKER: I referred you to 189. Remove yourself under 94(a).
Mr PYNE: The fourth attempt:
… but we're not talking about that, we're talking here about the companies actually picking up the bill.
Bill still manages to obfuscate. The fifth attempt:
… but you do accept … that at some point companies would've paid the union fees.
Mr Dreyfus interjecting—
The SPEAKER: I said remove yourself under 94(a).
Mr PYNE: He says:
It's entirely possible …
Mr Dreyfus interjecting—
The SPEAKER: 189. Resume your seat.
Mr PYNE: So, finally, after five attempts from Mr Cassidy on the ABC, the Leader of the Opposition finally admits it is entirely possible that businesses like Winslow Constructors paid the union fees of their employees without actually knowing that they were joining up to the union. The Leader of Opposition has very serious questions to answer—
Mr Danby interjecting—
The SPEAKER: The member for Melbourne Ports will desist.
Mr PYNE: about what he knew, when he knew it and why he will not answer the questions that we have put and Mr Cassidy has put.
More importantly, we will help out. Because I am a generous man, we will help him out. Tomorrow, we will debate the Registered Organisations Commission bill in this House and we will put it to a vote. The Leader of the Opposition will have the opportunity tomorrow to vote on the Registered Organisations Commission and show his bona fides on whether he supports honest union officials or whether he supports dodgy union officials. If Labor votes against the Registered Organisations Commission bill tomorrow, what they are indicating is that they support dodgy union officials and not honest ones. I will give him the chance tomorrow to put his money where his mouth is.
The SPEAKER: I refer the member for Perth to page 189 and she will resume her seat. As for the member for Isaacs, if he attempts to disrupt question time in a similar manner, he will leave immediately. It is in my discretion to say that you may remain for the rest of question time, but push it one more bit and you will be out.